The Good, The Bad & The Gray
Welcome to The Good The Bad and The Gray Podcast, a compass in life's labyrinth, shining a light on relationships, wellness, and personal growth. Join me as I share insights and interview diverse guests. Together, we'll discuss highs, lows, and the in-between, offering perspectives on health, career, and more. Tune in for candid conversations that peel back life's layers, revealing the good, the bad, and the gray with hues from light to dark.
The Good, The Bad & The Gray
Bonus Episode: Building Brands That Matter: A Conversation with Hayden Jones (W&A)
What separates truly successful brands from the countless others competing for attention? The answer might be simpler—and more profound—than you think.
"I think that success is defined by how you represent yourself and how you treat others," shares our thoughtful guest Hayden Jones, an MBA student specializing in strategic management. In this captivating conversation, we explore the intersection of personal values and business success with refreshing candor and practical wisdom.
Hayden reveals how watching entrepreneurs in her family shaped her perspective on leadership and business ownership. "My dad is an entrepreneur... my grandfather owned his own jet company... I've always wanted to pursue something where I can be a leader and manage my own business." This entrepreneurial spirit informs her insights throughout our discussion.
We dive deep into what makes brands truly connect with their audiences. Beyond logos and products, we explore how community integration, authentic storytelling, and genuine service create lasting relationships with customers. As Dr. Justin notes, "If you optimize service and constantly do it, you're going to have customers for life."
Perhaps most valuably, we address the mindset barriers that prevent many aspiring entrepreneurs from achieving their goals. "A lot of times people see things as difficult so they don't start it," Dr. Justin observes. Hayden adds wisdom about living in the present rather than getting caught in anxiety about the future—sage advice for anyone building something meaningful.
Whether you're an established business owner, aspiring entrepreneur, or simply interested in the human elements that drive successful brands, this conversation offers refreshing perspectives on building businesses that reflect your values while creating genuine connections with those you serve.
Subscribe, share, and join us as we explore wellness, athletics, and the principles that drive success across all areas of life.
Welcome to the good, the bad and the great podcast, where we shine a light on wellness, personal growth and relationships. Together, we'll discuss highs and lows and the in-betweens, offering different perspectives on health and wellness. Tune in as we peel back the layers of life, revealing the good, bad and the great. Ready, cool welcome back to the good, the bad and the great podcast. I have a special guest in the building. This is the world is an athletics edition.
Speaker 2:Yes, uh I a special guest in the building.
Speaker 1:This is the World is an Athletics edition. Yes, I have Hayden in the building. Hayden, what's up?
Speaker 3:Hi everybody.
Speaker 1:Hayden. So where are you from?
Speaker 2:I'm from Austin, Texas.
Speaker 1:Austin and I go to school here in Tuscaloosa. Okay, so what brought you to Tuscaloosa?
Speaker 2:So, first of all, so I'm in grad school right now, but I did undergrad here, and I have a bunch of family members that live here and teach at the university, um, and they are very generous with their scholarships so that's what led me to come here, and I'm so glad I did. I had a really good undergrad experience and now I'm loving um grad school as well nice wait.
Speaker 1:So austin texas. Obviously we now. We both know a little bit about austin.
Speaker 2:It is awesome, people are super nice so nice it's so weird so yeah, keep us awesome weird and I didn't understand it until I.
Speaker 1:I was like wait, what is like? I've like a number of times I've been to like the gym and other places people actually hold they like will talk to you.
Speaker 2:Yes, hold the door like what is? That. What is that?
Speaker 1:no, like, not just like hold it for like a split second, like maybe five seconds, six or seven second holding the door for you they ask how you are.
Speaker 2:Yes, it's so refreshing what I don't know what that is.
Speaker 1:That's not Texas.
Speaker 2:No, it's only. It only happens in Austin.
Speaker 1:That it blew my mind.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's crazy.
Speaker 1:For sure, but yeah, so tell us a little bit more about yourself. So you said you're in grad school for yes.
Speaker 2:OK, so I'm getting my MBA right now and I'm concentrating in strategic management, which is exciting. What else? I have a dog and Aussie Doodle. He's a year and a half. He's very bad, oh man, but he's entertaining and sweet, so it's okay, makes up for it. And then what else? Um, I work at innisfree. I love it there all my best friends work with me. Um what else I'm a?
Speaker 1:ta nice, I'm a teaching assistant. How's that that life? It's honestly really fun because I get to like help all the students learn everything. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Do tutoring.
Speaker 1:Oh man.
Speaker 2:So and honestly like it helps me learn stuff more and like learn how to teach people, so it's a really good experience. I love the gym. I go every day.
Speaker 1:Every day. I see Justin there all the time. Yeah, you yeah yeah.
Speaker 2:You, yeah, yeah, um, you used to be like a 4-8 or early morning person. What?
Speaker 1:happened and then and I just fell off and I'm there just whenever. Yeah, I was there at noon. Well, you do kind of work like you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, if I work, if I work until, if I work the night shift, I'll usually go to the gym a little later so I get some sleep, but I do like going at 5 am because it's like dead it's like no one there no, it's not dead, she's not anymore she's there.
Speaker 1:No, it's not dead at 5. Not anymore. She's there at like 3. Oh, you go at 5?.
Speaker 3:I go at 4. 4?.
Speaker 1:Yeah, she's there 4?
Speaker 2:That's awesome though she's like 4?, 4?.
Speaker 1:That's awesome.
Speaker 2:I'm like, wait, let's do 4 am. Yes, 4 am is good.
Speaker 1:when you leave no, yeah, it's good because the crowd that's there are usually there to work, but it's like three or four people max sometimes if I go in the afternoon.
Speaker 2:The thing is is, if you go in the afternoon you're gonna see all your friends, so like you're gonna be talking to your friends which is good usually, but if you just like want to go in and work, then like you got to go in the morning yeah I feel like that part.
Speaker 1:That part is is like I don't like going in after doing this. I have to. But when you have to talk, you know, when you see all your friends, you have to talk the entire time.
Speaker 2:I know, then you're suddenly there for like three hours. I'm like I've been here from 1 pm to 4 pm, Don't make it a cardio day, because you're there so long yeah. Sometimes people will come talk to me when I'm running on the treadmill. I'm like wait, I can barely do this to begin with.
Speaker 1:And I'm trying to talk. Wow, yeah, and do you think that's rude, though, like, how do you feel about, how do you?
Speaker 2:really feel about that, about talking in the gym or talking while I'm running, talking while you're running while you're working, I feel like people that don't understand.
Speaker 1:so I don't think it's rude, but like I'm not gonna lie like I don't get irritated, but I'm like I'm I'm trying to run like let's chat.
Speaker 2:I can chat after, though, because I'm like profusely sweating.
Speaker 1:I'm like I can't even get words out and then you have to work a little bit harder if you're talking and running honestly.
Speaker 2:Maybe they're like doing it so you can like get better.
Speaker 1:I don't know they're testing your limits, like let's see how much you can. That's definitely not why? Nah, because they're not running as well. But yeah, okay. So I we do have some questions for you. Okay, because we want to get to know you on the pod first. So with this chapter of the podcast, just two questions. I ask all new uh guests okay, what are you saying hello to and what are you saying goodbye to?
Speaker 2:okay, so I'm trying to say hello to doing more spontaneous things. Okay, um me and my friend sophie. We're best friends. We're going to visit my friend taylor in europe nice so we just booked that yesterday and I was kind of unsure because it's a little bit spontaneous, but we went ahead and booked it because we were like we're so young and my mom always says you should go travel the world while you're young.
Speaker 2:So I used to be very spontaneous when I was very young in undergrad and then I kind of like liked more structure, obviously going to the gym at 5 am and like I became boring.
Speaker 1:So now.
Speaker 2:I'm trying to like, channel my spontaneous nature and like be, young again.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So I've been trying to do more things like that okay what else?
Speaker 1:what are you? Are you what? Are you saying goodbye? You can leave it there or you can continue on that. What do you say hello to?
Speaker 2:saying hello. Was that a hello or goodbye? I guess it's goodbye to boring hello yeah, to to spontaneity yeah, yeah so so it could be both yeah, but we need something that I'm trying to keep in my life yeah is like I feel like I'm typically a pretty positive person and I think it's really important to like spread, to be kind to everybody, because you never know what people are going through a lot of people put on like a very happy face, um, and you can really never tell what certain people are going through.
Speaker 2:That's true. So something I'm trying to keep in my life, even when I'm really stressed out, is like to always show people grace and always be kind and like little things that you can do, just small things like holding the door for people or like telling someone like I like your outfit.
Speaker 2:Not a lot of people do that nowadays and I think that that's really important and like also to your own self being. It's all about like what your mindset is, that like projects onto your entire life. So I try and stay really positive and like find the good in every day. Like me and my mom, we always send five grateful things every morning, so I think that that's really important. I think that people get lost in life and they forget how like lucky we are to even be here. All of us that are probably listening to this, and, like I know, all of us are very blessed and like yes very lucky to live the life that we live, and I think some people just get lost yeah, forget those things yeah.
Speaker 2:So I think it's important to like, always stay positive and always uplift others in yourself that's good, see, that's why she's here today.
Speaker 1:Um, that's, that's really like you're, I think you know. Just just to piggyback on that, like my initial observation when I've seen you is just like that personality, that positivity. You're always bright, you know, in terms of like saying hello, small things you're, you got, you make time to make, say something to certain people, and I think that's huge. A lot of people in a gym, oh, my god, like I get it. We are, we're all going through some things, but you know those small moments just to say, hey, how you doing good exactly that that means a lot.
Speaker 2:It goes a long way yeah, and some people you don't even know need it, do need it oh man and like I think that even some people just say that they're good and they'll just move on with their day. But even you just asking them and showing like, oh, I actually care about you and like I actually want you to be doing well, I think that like makes a world of difference. No, like, a lot of people just don't ask that nowadays. So I think it's important to make people feel cared about.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Nowadays.
Speaker 1:I agree, I agree, I 100% agree with that. So, hey, renee has some questions for you, okay, and we want to start off for y'all, okay For us, the both of us. All right, what questions do you have for us, hey, renee.
Speaker 3:I I caught a little bit like the end. I caught a little bit like the end. It's your degree is in. You're studying what?
Speaker 2:So it's MBA, so it's business administration, so it's basically like everything to do with running a business and like management.
Speaker 3:That's your concentration. Yes, okay, how did you get into that? Like what made you want to pursue that?
Speaker 2:Okay, so my dad is an entrepreneur and he started his own business and, um, it's more of a financial business. It's like auto refinancing, and then my grandfather owned his own jet company a while ago. So I have always um looked up to these like entrepreneurs and like they're very much leaders, um. So I've always wanted to pursue something where I can be like a leader and like manage my own business, be my own boss and stuff like that, and I feel like the MBA program would help me get there, because I've always tried to like do things where it would help me become like a better leader to others. So that's like one more step yeah that's how I chose that huge.
Speaker 1:Uh. First, shout out to your dad, shout out to your mom too, for you know, like the small, I'm just hearing what you, how you'd express, like what you guys do, those four things you guys say each day. Then also your dad been entrepreneur and that rubbing off on you, that's huge.
Speaker 2:I have really like good people in my life to like thank for everything they've taught me. My mom she was also a real estate agent, so it's kind of like she did her own, she ran her own business. So, honestly, everyone that I've always been um surrounded by have been like go-getters and like they always want to like.
Speaker 1:If they want something, they're gonna go get it, so I'm like very lucky that I was raised by people like that well, I'm I'm happy to be associated with you, because that is me all day.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Like, if I want to do something, I'm going to go do it yeah. So that's huge. What other questions?
Speaker 3:What is your bachelor's degree in business as well?
Speaker 2:Yes, so my bachelor's degree. I majored in marketing and finance and then my minor was real estate. Oh girl.
Speaker 1:Okay, she ain't playing.
Speaker 2:No, she ain't playing no she ain't playing it.
Speaker 1:It was fun, though finance is a little boring, but marketing was really fun.
Speaker 2:Finance was fun too.
Speaker 1:I love numbers, but I just your math whiz I love math wow, it's different.
Speaker 2:I don't know if it's different sitting at a table crunching numbers all day. It's for me? Nah, probably not.
Speaker 3:Yeah, well, if you need something to fall back on, you got something exactly just the NBA itself is already huge, like being able to kind of be general in business and go in any lane you want to go in.
Speaker 1:That's huge. What else you got right now?
Speaker 3:so what? How much um? Do you plan on working with brands?
Speaker 2:I think that that is huge. So it really depends what I do after my MBA. So there's three different fields I would want to go in. I either want to do something like this, like run my own athletic brand.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Like, whether that be like apparel or supplements, gym, whatever. I've also thought about following my grandfather's footsteps and selling jets. I think that'd be really awesome. That's a huge dream, though. Um, and then I also. My lifelong dream was to always work for the NFL, so I guess with all of those you can work with different brands.
Speaker 2:I feel like if I did something with athletic, like if I ran my own athletic brand that would be more associated with other brands yeah but nfl could also be associated with other brands too like working with I feel like in every field you work with other brands yes even with my dad's job, like he collaborates with, like other brands for like vehicle, like warranties and stuff so I feel like it goes with everything nice don't feel any pressure with these questions no pressure with these questions, just like you know um, this like a little general question, maybe like an opinionated answer you'll give what makes a brand more than just a logo or a product?
Speaker 2:oh, I feel like we talked about this a lot yeah, we have okay.
Speaker 2:So I feel like for a brand to be more than a logo. It's really important for a brand to be integrated with not only their customers but the communities um that they're in. I know a lot of brands that get involved in the community um, specifically with fitness. They get involved with, like, local gyms um, local restaurants. They do things for the people. They'll like run 5ks um all that stuff. Get involved with charity, like the non-profit that you do. I think that it's really important to be a helping hand to the people that buy your products, um, because I think it's more important to have more like usually the relationship's just customer and then, like you sell to them. But I think it's important to foster a relationship where it's actually a bond and, like you can help each other grow yeah and to like just get involved when should a founder step back from being the face of the brand?
Speaker 1:oh well, I'll say my opinion first. While she's and this is my personal opinion I think, um, every creator, you know you, you birth something, you birth your baby, right? I think that is important at some point to hand it off and step away from it, I think that point come. That point comes to where you. That point comes when you feel like you never were going to perfect your brand because you're looking at it all in one way, but when you feel like you've done enough for it. That's when it's time for someone else to take it from you so they can do more with it.
Speaker 1:And that could be like before you even launch it. It could be like you just perfected a design and you feel like you can go no further with it. That's when it's time to hand it off to someone else to look at it so they can make their critiques to it, because you have this bias, you know, observation or perspective of what you created. At some point, you know you're going to be your own enemy because you think it's the best thing ever. When it's probably not. It's probably a five out of ten, and someone else can take it to an eight. You know it's probably a five out of 10. And someone else can take it to an eight, you know. So I think when you feel like you've done everything and exhausted all your you know tools to get it to a certain point, that's when it's time to hand it off, because that was my opinion.
Speaker 2:I actually completely agree. I think that when someone founds a business, they have like an idea of what perfection looks like, and I think that you have people under you working for you. And I think that when you start getting like tunnel vision and like not letting other people's opinions help, like build and transform the business, I think that's when you step back, because it's important to have as many perspectives as you can to like grow the business as much as you can.
Speaker 1:That's huge. That's a great answer. So yeah, world of Athletics is the brand that we're discussing um and what inspired?
Speaker 3:okay, sorry, go ahead. Oh, go ahead what inspired you to start this brand yo um.
Speaker 1:So the inspiration behind the brand is essentially, you know, I deem mental health or wellness as a whole as uh, you know, an outlet for most people, whether that's mental, physical or spiritual wellness. Also, social wellness is a thing, but I saw that you know a lot of in the past, a lot of brands weren't partnering with or supporting mental health organizations to, you know, help build the representation for it. I think how can we support people that have these mental health, say, needs, but they can't afford it? And the brand kind of like just birthed from there. It was like okay, how can we show people that we are supporting and how can we bring awareness to mental health? The brand itself, attached to the nonprofit, was a way to raise funds, get people more interested in what this is about mental, physical and spiritual wellness and that's something I think that holds dear to my heart.
Speaker 3:So that was like your goal when you created it.
Speaker 1:It was one of my outlets to express my passion of supporting people in some form or fashion, like, how can you get someone, how can you create something for somebody that you know means something to them? Or how can you create something that can stand for something for someone else right, like, for instance, some of the designs that we we create. They represent like physical wellness or mental wellness, um, depending on how you're feeling, and I want, I wanted to always create something that could express that for that individual that couldn't express it themselves okay, I liked it.
Speaker 3:Um hayden is it more important for a brand to be consistent or adaptable in today's fast changing world?
Speaker 2:I think, adaptable, with some sense of like staying true to who the brand is. Yeah, I think you should always stay true. I think that every brand has, like a core mission within them that sticks with, like all their customers, and everyone views a brand a certain way and I think, to a certain extent, it's important to maintain that. But I also think that it's important to adapt, like I think the world's like ever changing, like people's tastes and everything like that, so I think it's important to adapt to those changes. But I think the world's like ever changing, like people's tastes and everything like that, so I think it's important to adapt to those changes, but I think it's important to stay true to who the brand is as well yeah, okay, like that and I think if there's something that a brand knows they can improve on, like whether that be like introducing, like the non-profit, or like getting more involved with people.
Speaker 2:I think they can make those changes while like staying true to themselves yeah um.
Speaker 3:Do you have a slogan for wellness? So?
Speaker 1:our initial slogan, or is it slogan it's funny, you talk you ask that because our um, our social media manager, we had discussions this morning, so initially it was, and more right it was wellness. It was wellness athletics is is more right and I think initially that's vague. Obviously more what right? You're gonna ask the question more, more what? Um, where, where you come, like clothes, um, I think now it's more of um. So more service is the biggest thing for us now, like how?
Speaker 3:do we serve in that service?
Speaker 1:it's, don't play, it's the brand, it's. You said it the other day. It all comes back to service, right? So the brand itself and and I kind of talked to uh, hayden and felicia about this like the brand itself is it's more of a service brand. And, right, I think when you think of clothing brands, you think of, you know, brands that drop all these cool, stylish type of designs, which is great, we that. But we want to make sure that our mission, the clothing, is not bigger than the mission and is not bigger than the call. So how do we continue to push that? And I think we have to do that and we can do that through service. So, if the brand is serving, I think we're doing what we're intended to do.
Speaker 3:So, yeah, Are you in like a rebranding phase?
Speaker 1:we're in a transition phase, yes, good. So this new drop and this new look, this new push for the brand is different, and what I mean by that it is it's more of you know. How can we, like I go back to that how can we serve? And I think, more than us just being a clothing brand, we want to be a service brand. So there are different things that we can attach ourselves to.
Speaker 1:Obviously, mental health we've already done that. We were attaching ourselves to a mental health, to a nonprofit. But also one of the biggest holes I've seen, or the biggest opportunities I've seen, is that a lot of nonprofits don't really collaborate much. So as a brand, I think, as we're traveling this summer and that's something we're going to be doing a lot we want to kind of connect with some of these nonprofits. How can we support, you know, even if it's raising money or a percentage of what we sell from our clothes or services, how can we give that back to you? I think the more people see that other brands are doing this, not just to one specific organization, then they'll be more inclined to do it too as well. So it's more about leading by example here.
Speaker 3:So, Hayden, how do you think that Dr Gray can navigate rebranding without losing his existing customers?
Speaker 2:Okay, so I was actually just thinking about this. I think that the second that I was introduced to this brand, I always knew that there was like a sense of community, like he's always, you're always talking to everyone at the gym, like everyone always has very good things to say about you and the brand I can't stand Justin, but I love it.
Speaker 1:There's very good things to say about you and the brand. I can't stand Justin.
Speaker 2:I know, but I love the brand. No, but I think everyone has a lot of respect and it has only good things to say about you and the brand and I think that you did a really good job, especially even when you were starting out building a community. I think attaching the non-profit to it was also a big step. Yeah, and I think that we haven't really done a lot with the transition phase yet, but I think ever since you even started, it's been transitioning the whole time yes, so I think that you've always stayed true to keeping it well within, like the community, and making that a really important part.
Speaker 2:Um, whenever I go into crunch I always see people wearing the apparel and they all know who you are, like one of my really good friends, rea. She's awesome, like she knows him it's just like a really big community and I think that that's always stayed true to who the brand is and I think when we travel this summer and like, still go through that transition, I think that it's just going to build upon still making it a community just like a bigger one yeah
Speaker 3:absolutely yeah, I've had someone ask me hey, where's justin? The one with the brand one with the brand like um, he's not here. I can't tell you where he is, but he's not here with the brand. Um, what's something about building a brand that no one talks about?
Speaker 1:oh, the struggle in the building process. I think there's a lot of sacrifice and you have to really choose and sometimes you don't have a control, but you have to choose. If you can choose what you you're going to sacrifice in the beginning.
Speaker 1:A lot of times you're going to sacrifice more than you expect yeah if you're truly trying to get it to the place it needs to be. The second thing is I don't think most people know in terms of clothing brands, I don't think people know the clothing brand is not that profitable brand, it's business. The business is not profitable because it's so saturated. A lot of people have clothing brands and then the big brands themselves are already doing so much. It's kind of hard to find your own niche unless you are like, extremely creative or you have a different vision for your brand. So, like even everyone that I talk to that are like they're wanting to start a brand, I tell like, hey, make sure that you're attaching something else to this and nothing is taken personal when you're starting this because you're going to see, you're going to go into it like wide eyed oh, this is great. You're going to start seeing like, ok, this is a little bit more difficult than I thought. I'm not saying that to make anyone quit. I think it's still a great thing. Is your passion about it is still a great thing is, if you're passionate about it, um, but also like, even if you're trying to come up with a product like you talked about, you know athletic wear or something dealing with you know nfl or something like that.
Speaker 1:Don't limit yourself to what you have to offer, because I think that's what we we're doing. We're wiring our reach like how do we find? And then once we, how do we find something that we are, we can get good at and that is missing, that has its own lane. Basically, you have to widen your reach. First, don't be too specific, because in that case it will be a lot harder for you to grow.
Speaker 1:And that's my personal opinion and that's why you've seen us like with some of the drops. They're essentially on par with a trend, like the camouflage drop. It was on par with the trend of camouflage being in, but we we tailored it to where it was still our thing, so it was kind of like a branch off of that trend, but we still rode the trend. So I think it's it's important to kind of be a little bit broader with your reach and not so specific, unless you feel like, unless you're kim kardashian if you're whatever you want, if you have, if you're a celebrity, oh, whatever you want, you got because you already have the, the following, the reach, and you can do whatever you want.
Speaker 1:But if you're starting from the bottom, attach something to what your brand is. It needs to have meaning. I mean because, at the end of the day, people like you're saying they connect with that yeah, yeah, connect yeah so um yeah I think that's. That's what I would say about that I'll go ahead sorry.
Speaker 2:I think like also going off of that, like watching my dad run his business, um, and my mom. I think that a big thing that comes with it is fear, and I I think that fear makes people scared to do things that they need to do, to, like, reach the next level, like they're scared to take that step or they're at a crossroads and they don't know which way to go, and I think that fear is something your brand could be so much bigger and better than it is, and I think fear like is kind of what's the word like it's, it hinders you.
Speaker 1:Yeah yeah, that's true. Fear, man, and kind of that's what we talked about from our last pod, like we did a pod. We were talking about like fear and faith, like just having that, that mindset that you can do whatever you want you put your mind to, but that fear definitely hinders you and like fear of failure.
Speaker 2:I remember someone that, like I like look up to a lot. He said he was like I'm really scared um to fail but, I think that that comes with like everything that could be great, like there's always a chance that you're gonna fail yeah and like even if you do fail, like you just learn from it there you go.
Speaker 1:Yes, that is, that is huge. You just said that it's a good question what's the classroom?
Speaker 3:um steps of building a brand. Ooh.
Speaker 1:Classroom steps.
Speaker 2:What's a classroom?
Speaker 1:step Like from MBA.
Speaker 3:Yeah, oh.
Speaker 2:Not you engineer. Okay, I need a second to think about that. I don't know specifically the steps, but I think a lot of what MBA has taught me is that connections are everything. So once you come up with an idea, it's important to network and like find people that are gonna help you, and like people that want to like be there for you and help you, um like go out of their way essentially to help you build your brand. Um, and then, along with that, obviously there's all like the marketing and the finances and you have to build. I think it's taught me like the most important thing about building a brand is like the people that you have behind you that's important um to like support you like, you need to have people that are like very reliable.
Speaker 2:I think that it's hard to find. I think to find ethical people is the most important part, because having to find people that are always going to do the right thing is hard in today's world. But I do think that finding people that are going to do the right thing no matter if it's necessarily the right thing for them, but like they have to do what's right for the brand.
Speaker 2:So I think finding people like that is really important. So I guess, like find people to support you and finding people that are always going to do the right thing, it's important, okay, I think that that's. I think that finding good people that are going to work hard is more important than finding the best person at the job.
Speaker 3:Oh my god, I can rent like yeah, an hour about that so, justin, what were the things that led you to how you built your brand?
Speaker 1:initially the vision and, I think, after the vision, communicating that and finding support. I think a lot of people entrepreneurial, who that want to be entrepreneurs, they they look at like, oh, I gotta do all of this and they try to put, they try to carry a lot of that by themselves, when you know, it's always great to find great support, but that's the difficult part is finding individuals that will support your brand or that is, they have great intentions and I think that's an important piece. But it started with a vision. Finding out, you know, making a game plan of what the mission for the brand is A second piece. So I had a vision for the brand.
Speaker 1:Now, what is the mission? Like what? What do I want the brand to stand for? What do I want it to do?
Speaker 1:Um, once I figured that piece out then it was like, okay, cool, how can I create something that no one else has? What is our lane? So you know, I begin to have like different inspirations behind the brand. Like, okay, cool, like I, like this type of brand, like dark sports, I like you know, like um, la, these are cool brands, but how can we stand out and create our own lane? So I think a lot of it was like oh cool, let me express how I feel and maybe even partner with someone and collab with them and see how they feel, and express and created a design that actually people would enjoy you know, watching or wearing.
Speaker 1:And then from there it was like OK, finances, what makes sense? How do you back this brand with you know the finances, and where do you go to get the finances if you don't have it? I was lucky to kind of like always have a job and income, so I saved up a good bit to to push the brand and and put in it. And I think that is important that most people don't understand Like you need to make sure that you are financially in a place to launch yourself or launch your brand, because if not, you're just going to be like you know, pushing yourself in more debt and you don't want that.
Speaker 3:But yeah, so how? How are you standing out? Because you said that the market is kind of oversaturated. So how do you stand out? Besides, like, well, I think you have a great um, what's the word identity? No, like you have a lot of different people that rock your brand. I literally see them and I be like, oh he know, justin.
Speaker 1:That's how I know, they know you, they know Justin.
Speaker 2:I think the same thing, all the people who know Jerry Master. I'm like, wow, look at all these people, look at all these WA's up here.
Speaker 3:Look at all that camo going on. Oh my God, yeah, looking at these wa's up here look at all that camo going on.
Speaker 1:Oh my god, yeah, um what's your question? How do you?
Speaker 3:stand out in the overcrowded or over. So it's difficult.
Speaker 1:I'm gonna say this like there are a lot of brands that copy other brands, like we even have dupes, if you want to call them of other brands, but they have a great quality andes, if you want to call them, of other brands, but they have a great quality.
Speaker 1:And I think that's the other difficult part in terms of standing out, because everybody is copying everyone, like once someone has a great product, they can go overseas and get like an exact duplicate of what. That is right and, I'm going to be honest, it's easy to do that. But in terms of standing out, I think the standing out part is basically, I would say, just having a meaning behind what you're doing, like always having a tone or a theme about where you're dropping and why the struggle or a reason behind something, because that makes them feel a little bit more relatable to you and your brand. For instance, if you look at a lot of the trendy brands now I go back to Dark Sports they have a brand and they do some collabs with anime.
Speaker 1:A lot of people love anime. It's like oh, if you collab with something that people can relate to, because they were raised on that type of stuff, they're gonna buy it. They really don't even care how it looks, they're just like oh, this is my favorite, you know character, I'm gonna buy it. So, uh, finding things people can relate to, whether that is you know, you know anime or or other different type of things that you can see. What do, do you think, hayden?
Speaker 2:Okay, I just want to say I can reference other brands, right.
Speaker 1:Yes, okay.
Speaker 2:So I really like Define and I was telling you this On the inside of their clothing it has a little line and it says let no one define you. And I think that that's really cool because it's something that's really subtle, but I think, like let no one define you, it's just like a little phrase that like pushes you and like on the days where you don't feel like doing anything, like you read that and you're like ready to go. So I think that like um, having little things like that they remind people like their purpose and their reason for doing something and always motivate motivating them is good. And then also like in local brands like five star nutrition, every time I go in there they're so friendly, they always remember like who everyone is and they always like they're like how are you doing? And I think it's really important. We sound like a broken record, but like again, like connecting with the people. That you're selling to.
Speaker 2:I think it's really important because I walk in there and I feel like they're actually like Trying to help me, not just trying to sell me a product, and like trying to do what's best for me and for them. So I think that that's really important too nice what's the question?
Speaker 3:I haven't been there in so long. I haven't either.
Speaker 2:Honestly, oh, man, but I like when I used to go like they would always be so helpful and so nice I used to be like, get on these things so you can see how much body fat you got. I'm like I don't want to get on that thing.
Speaker 3:I got time, baby, I gotta go.
Speaker 2:Thank you, I'm not taking my shoes off to get on that thing.
Speaker 1:I'm in and out, I gotta go. They trying to sell you as a product, man.
Speaker 3:They want to care, they care yeah, they care they care, get on this thing cool, it's okay, I'll go by how my clothes fit I don't care about none of that, um, how has working in branding shaped your view of business as a whole, both of y'all you want to go first, hey?
Speaker 2:wait, can you repeat that one more time?
Speaker 3:how has working in branding shaped your view of business as a whole branding as in like what do you mean? Well working with a brand, so like maybe, maybe you should go first because you have a brand, yeah, so how has working? How has working with your brand shaped your view of business as a whole?
Speaker 1:um, I think it's, I would say it. It has emphasized that. I want to say service. But service is important. Connection, a connection is important. It's emphasized, like things we've already kind of talked about. It's like you know, people connect with you, know what's relatable, obviously, but also if they see you, you are there and you're serving in some form or fashion, they'll they'll connect with that.
Speaker 1:So I think just it showed me that service industry in general, if you're talking about restaurants or retail, a lot of those industries are like Chick-fil-A, like you know, if you think about what kind of pushed them over the edge outside of the chicken being pretty good service they have and they don't innovate anywhere else outside of service right now. If you think about it, if you look at how they initially started serving people to their cars, now they're probably every location is investing in their traffic in the way that you know their customers move in and out of their, their facility. That's service. So they're optimizing service and I think that's why they're still growing to this day and they're still like one of the number one fast food restaurants Because they're optimizing service and a lot of people don't see that. But if you can optimize service and constantly do it. Oh man, you're going to have like customers for life.
Speaker 2:So yeah, like always getting better, yeah, always improving.
Speaker 3:I agree.
Speaker 2:Um, I think I've worked um for a lot of different businesses, like a lot of different food places, um, for my dad.
Speaker 2:I think that the most important thing that I've noticed in business again is like the connections that you make with people.
Speaker 2:I think, like making someone laugh, asking again, asking how they're doing. I think it's all about how you like I think the people you have working for you portrays who you are as a business and I think that's how people are going to see you.
Speaker 2:And I also think that, watching entrepreneurs, they always know who is going to put their best foot forward, like not only like welcoming and customers and like making people feel welcome and building those connections, because that is so important. But I also think they know who is always going to try and improve and who is going to work hard and like who's going to pick up shifts and who's going to like come work overtime and like do all that. They always know who's going to do that. No matter if you think they do or they don't, they know who the hard workers are. So I think that, from working in several different businesses, the most important things that I have learned is it's important to always work hard, but also like put your best foot forward and like put on a happy face when you go into work and always like welcome everybody in and always like welcome everybody in.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think, because you never know, you're always in another interview, somebody's always watching you. So you could be interviewing for another job without even knowing it.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:What else you got? What's a failure or setback that ended up being a turning point for you? Man that's a deep one.
Speaker 2:It's not that deep A failure or setback.
Speaker 2:I think I have one one. Oh, let's go, okay. So when I was a senior, I was looking for jobs. Got none no job offers, um. So that's actually what led me to apply to grad school, and I think that's the best thing that I ever did. I think that it was a really good thing for me and I was really upset that I didn't get a job and I was like ready to go and like start my life. So it was really hard, um, but I think that staying here, I have met so many amazing people, um, I have learned so much and like built a lot of connections. I'm really actually glad that it happened that way. Even though in the moment it was really hard and it seemed like not the best outcome, I think that it worked out in my favor nice, wow, what was the question?
Speaker 1:again, I like to make her repeat things. She's awesome, you're awesome.
Speaker 3:What's the okay, thanks. What's a failure or setback that ended up being a turning point?
Speaker 1:in business.
Speaker 3:It could be in business me specifically, with wellness and what is athletics um failure or setback I would say, not failing over here.
Speaker 1:Right setback. I think it would go into like bringing associating with the wrong type of people.
Speaker 1:I think that there have been a lot of setbacks with that and and it is also because, as an entrepreneur, you have to learn a lesson of how to choose the right people yeah you don't know in the beginning, because you're like so bent on, like getting to a certain point and doing something that sometimes you're blinded by the person wanting to be there versus them actually being there for a different type of reason.
Speaker 1:And, um, you have to very, very well just be aware of that, because sometimes you'll get used, which is cool, because that's part of business, a part of the process. But I don't see it as a failure. I think it's like a learning curve, like OK, cool, this is not the type of person I would want working for the business. This is not the type of person I would want working for the business. This is not a type of person I want to be associated with, with the business, and I think that has been like one of the setbacks is kind of figuring out the right people and and moving forward with those individuals yeah, I think that who you associate with um is very important.
Speaker 3:Yeah. I realized that too, it's not even just in business and life in general.
Speaker 2:Life, yes, yeah, I think that's like the most important part about life is who you are and who you surround yourself with yes, because, yeah, we don't even have to go into.
Speaker 1:That could be a whole podcast. We'll do it later. We'll let Hayden just take that one um Hayden.
Speaker 3:What role does personal branding play in building a company brand so like?
Speaker 2:okay so I kind of just talked about that. I think that your personal brand is everything. I think that, um, I say like, put on a happy face when you go into work, but I think that I think that your true colors always come out. So, like, I think that your true colors always come out, so I think that your personal brand is everything, and if you are truly happy and at peace with yourself, you're going to put on that face every day at work, because that's just who you are, and I think that's important.
Speaker 2:Also, in your personal brand, your work ethic is really important, obviously when you're working. So I think that having like your attitude is everything, whether that is being positive, being happy, caring for people, working hard All of those are really important things that play into a business, and I think that in order for a business to like grow and thrive, you need people that are going to want to like work hard, go the extra mile and like actually care about the business. Like care about themselves but also care about the business and, like I said before, doing what's right by the business sometimes like most of the time over what's best for yourself, like you always need to do what's ethical and like just like doing the right thing all the time. I think that that is like really important and, ultimately, like the people that work for a business are going to be the face of the business and that's who is going to be attracting your customers.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's good, hmm, um.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's good, mm. Hmm. Um, how do you think a challenger brand success can successfully position itself against like another brand?
Speaker 1:How do you say it again?
Speaker 3:Yeah, like a rival brand, Like how can a challenger brand successfully position itself against even not even just what other leaders? So, like you are and you may have already answered it when I might be just asking it in a different way but like you're competing and I put that in quotation marks- with competition other. So how do you, how do you position yourself? I?
Speaker 2:I think the big thing with like wellness and athletics is like the fact that there's that aspect of like the nonprofit and the mental health and like the community. I think that that's what like sets it apart from other brands and how they can like out-compete, like define or like navigation, because like those are just brands that are selling a product but they don't have that other aspect of like the connecting part yeah, I think also and this is something I kind of got from talking to hayden a while back it's like the story, our story, we don't.
Speaker 1:I don't think we did a good job and I don't think I did a good job with expressing the story behind it and showing people, like, what is really going on, how do we, how we got, how do we get from here to there? Uh, because a lot of people don't know much, much about me. They don't know that you know, I'm actually a engineer by trade and you know, like I have other different things that I, I, um, I do but as. But more than anything like, why did it start? When did it start, I? When did it start? I think we could have did a better job at that. If we did that, that would have been a better positioning for us to kind of say, okay, cool, now people would look at us versus just looking at the big brands out there. I think that's a better position is expressing your story, telling your story.
Speaker 3:Have you gotten a lot of feedback and if so, what kind of feedback do you get?
Speaker 1:regarding your brand. Um consistency, we have been inconsistent with our posting and that's all me. I'm gonna be 100.
Speaker 3:Anything, any of our weaknesses is me because you were working on something for sure but there's no excuses.
Speaker 1:True, I think, in trans, like, like hayden said, we're always in transition. I think it's good always be in transition because you're constantly building, you're constantly trying to evolve and be the best, the better version of yourself, um, but yeah, I think, yeah, feedback we get is consistency. Uh, new drops, like we love your drops. Why don't you guys do different colors?
Speaker 3:um, yeah, things like that where do you see the brand in five years?
Speaker 1:oh, five years, man, five years. I see the brand like 30, right. I see the brand like everyone knows his identity. Everyone knows and can recognize with that logo, of that wellness athletics logo, like okay, I know what that is yeah, yeah, definitely.
Speaker 3:Um, how do you balance growth with brand integrity? Like you know, sometimes people talk about certain brands and they're like the the ingredients, are they not as good? So?
Speaker 1:um, not being cheap curry, yeah. Second is and this is something that we are I think we're going to dive into is like how do we find individuals that actually can, you know, can body the brand, versus just us communicating with someone that is just out here just?
Speaker 2:for anything.
Speaker 1:And they have like an entire different persona and it doesn't, you know, correlate with the brand.
Speaker 2:So yeah, so I think that's, if you want to make some say something on that, you could I agree, like I think that the people that we bring on board, like for photo shoots or whatnot, or like working on the brand, like it's important that they also value the same things, that the mission of the brand is, like the mental health aspect, um that they like value fitness, like wellness, mental health all of that I think it's important that everyone that we bring on board also values that so is it?
Speaker 3:but for as far as that's the the background of the brand, like to make the engine run, yeah, but as far as like wearing it, that's anybody is open to it. They're going to buy it, they can wear it.
Speaker 1:What do you mean by that?
Speaker 3:Like you don't. I'm saying like you, you don't care who wears your brand, no, it's just who represents it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think like, to a certain extent, like your customers, represent your brand. But I also think that the people that buy your brand usually represent kind of what the mission is, because they're drawn to your brand, by your mission.
Speaker 1:I agree just wondering that was a good question how do you define success?
Speaker 3:I want both of y'all to answer this, and it's not just a financial or emotional thing. I am beating a dead horse here, but I want both of y'all to answer this, and it's not just a financial or emotional thing.
Speaker 2:I am beating a dead horse here.
Speaker 3:Yeah, she's going to say you already know what.
Speaker 1:I'm going to say we know what your beliefs are now.
Speaker 2:I think that success is defined by how you represent yourself and how you treat others. And should I go like deeper into that again? And should I go like deeper into that again, like? I think that success is defined by, like the way that you care about yourself and care about others, um, and all of the values that you say that you embody. I feel like you need to actually like put that into action, not just say that, um, I think that a lot of people recognize like who people are as a person, and I think it's important to show people that you care yeah, I agree and always stay true to your morals and your ethics.
Speaker 2:I think that love is really important caring, working hard, kindness I think that that kindness. I think that is success I'm working on it.
Speaker 1:I'm all that, I think I'll be short. I think success to me is man, I just got stuck that quick. I had it, but it just left me, so I'll try to just play around. So I think success to me, individual success, is just realizing something that is of value to you and accomplishing that versus, you know, comparing your outcome and the reward with someone else's outcome or their reward. So I think it's just more of individual success. It's more of like what you realize is of value to you and you accomplishing that.
Speaker 3:Okay, yeah, so you, hayden. You say you've worked with brands and businesses. Yes, what's your dream? Collab, ooh, Ooh, my dream collab.
Speaker 2:I love Define.
Speaker 3:Wait but.
Speaker 2:I more than Define. I love Dark Sport.
Speaker 1:Dark Sport is dope I think they're so awesome.
Speaker 2:I think that they do things that no other brand ever does. They host like competitions, they take, they do brand trips. Like every single drop that they do has like some sort of meaning. I was wearing like a dark sport top today. It has all sorts of slogans, like I think I told you this like whenever you go on there and like there's something that pops up and it's like I think it's to sign up for their text or something and it's like never give up yeah, like everything that they do, every single part of their website, has, like some sort of meaning to it and I really like that part of um dark sport and, like every athlete, that embodies their brand um, like I know embodies their mission too.
Speaker 1:Nice. So dark. Sports is never give up, and define is never define. Let no one define you so that.
Speaker 2:I think defines more about being your own individual and like being confident in yourself, I guess.
Speaker 1:They don't make guy clothes there.
Speaker 2:Define, I don't know Okay.
Speaker 1:I don't think so.
Speaker 2:I don't know, but dark sport.
Speaker 3:I think she's not clicking on that tab. Fine, I don't know. Okay, I don't think.
Speaker 2:So I don't know, but dark sport, I think I think, dark sport is more like push through hard times yeah, that's good, that's good, that's a good question cool dream collab dream collab, yeah oh not even.
Speaker 1:Not even with the brand, like maybe with the person person um dream, um dream collab with like what would it be? Clothing, what would it be?
Speaker 3:put him the way you close oh um the rock, of course. Oh, if the rock would just wear one shirt oh, have you done his leg day huh, have you done his leg? I have never done?
Speaker 1:have you done his leg day crazy? Oh yeah, but the rock. For sure I like I like him, I like what he stands for I love the rock and I love where he's come from and I think that's that's the biggest thing is like that grind to get to where he is.
Speaker 2:So the rock would be a dream and at the same time he's like funny. I think he's so funny.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, he's funny, see being funny like what's better than that oh, okay, we don't have to talk about guys. Here you guys are, don't do it, you guys are um, what's your, what's been your biggest aha moment?
Speaker 3:or like something that's clicked for you while studying business?
Speaker 2:oh, I think that there's not. I think everyone in their early 20s especially is so focused on trying to figure out what do I want to do? What do I want to do. I feel lost and I think the biggest thing I actually talked to my friends Sophie and Felicia about this like every day we, we all always say like we need to, like slow down. Anything you do in life can change, like you're never stuck in anything. A lot of my friends in their 20s that don't like their jobs. I'm like that's okay, just you can change what you're doing, even though it's scary. Um, so I think the biggest thing is like just knowing that there's always a path, a different path, that you can go on and nothing's ever set in place and you can come back from any anything what's been your biggest aha moment, um kind of?
Speaker 1:like piggybacking off of her, like just viewing things as a stepping stone and a part of the process, I think a lot of times people see things as difficult so they don't start it. But if you have that moment to where he's like, okay, cool, I want to get this done and here are the things I have to do to to get there, and just viewing those as a part of the process will get you a lot further, because your mindset will be already set and you won't basically, you know, sabotage yourself in the beginning by not starting. If you're just thinking about it as difficult or hard and I think a lot of people do that's why they don't start their brands, that's why they don't, you know, shoot for a different career. It's like they fail before they get started and a lot of that is in that mindset.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I feel before they get started and a lot of that is in that mindset. Yeah, I feel like when you look at things in like such a big picture um or get zoomed in.
Speaker 1:I don't know which one like it can be daunting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, now I guess you have to zoom out and like just notice that you have to take it day by day and like. The end goal is a lot, but each step that you take is small I think that makes it easier.
Speaker 3:I think that makes it easier. What's um? To close it out like what? What is Some advice that you would give someone that is wanting to? It might be like A circle back from what you said before, but some advice you'd give Someone that is wants to be like when you are. They need to be careful, though, because you wear a lot of hats, sure Well.
Speaker 1:I mean to be like where you are. I would say they need to be careful, though, because you wear a lot of hats, sure? Well, I mean then I, who else better?
Speaker 1:to give them some advice I would say um, don't, don't get drowned or don't swim too much into what, how to be successful, I would say focus or swim more in the fact of how not to quit something. I think a lot of times and people don't realize this, but we're more, most people are more inclined to quit than anything versus inclined to be successful. But anyways, yeah. But I think you know the advice I would give is like unlearn quitting If you've been quitting. Unlearn it If you haven't. Youarn it if you haven't. You know, if you don't quit, that's good because that means you can work through something. You're always in the long game.
Speaker 1:I think personally, for me, the reason I've been able to accomplish, you know, finish my PhD, start a business because I'm always in the long game, but I'm also never in a quitting game. So I know that I'm going to continue to work at it, chip at it until I get there. I'm never quitting. I may fail. Failing is good because I can learn from that, but if I quit, I'm never going to go back to it. So I think unlearning the art of quitting it should be a book.
Speaker 1:Maybe we'll just write that we don't know how to quit around here unlearning the art of quitting, and you know, just keeping that mindset. You don't have to to quit around here learning the art of quitting, and you know just keeping that mindset. You don't have to always keep the success mindset, just don't quit. If you start something, keep, keep at it, play the long game and just chip at it. You want to go.
Speaker 2:I think, going off of that, I think that living in the present is really important, and I think that, um, I know I get caught up living in a world of like anxiety, and I think that, um, I know I get caught up living in a world of like anxiety, and I think that, um, it's important for everyone to realize that there is a present moment and everything will work out the way it's supposed to, and we need to not get so caught up in either worrying about the past or worrying about the future. Um, as long as you worry about what's happening right now, everything will like fall into place and work out that's so true, man.
Speaker 1:That's. That is my mantra for the the year of 2025 like being present.
Speaker 2:Yes, I'm bad at it being so present.
Speaker 1:It's man.
Speaker 3:All right, I could talk about it for days, but that is good talk about anything for days for sure I like that, though not like not being afraid to fail yeah or not, even if you do feel like it's not the end of the world that's like where I'm living.
Speaker 1:That's what I'm going through now.
Speaker 3:So yeah, it's like yeah, life goes on.
Speaker 2:It does. Life always will go on, no matter what, with or without you yeah, all right so you got anything you want to say, or that was no that was itden.
Speaker 1:Do you want to give everyone your social media handles so they can?
Speaker 2:know you're fine. Okay, my Instagram is Hayden RY Jones. That's about it, instagram.
Speaker 1:Instagram, instagram's all I got really All right, guys, you want to give us our?
Speaker 3:Good, bad, great on TikTok, and the good, the bad and the great on Instagram and YouTube, and the good, the bad and the great On Instagram and YouTube and what I don't know. The wellness, it's just wellness. Yes.
Speaker 1:So what is at wellness and athletics Dot com, if you're, if you're shopping, and at wellness athletics On Instagram, tiktok, and we're probably gonna be Doing some more YouTube. With that being said, be on the lookout for me and Hayden. We're going to be possibly in your city this summer. We're going to be traveling, we're going to be doing some fun stuff Gym crawls, coffee ratings, maybe some restaurant food reviews, some fun stuff so you guys can get to know us and the brand a little bit more. I'm excited about it. Like Aaron said, like, share, subscribe, follow us on any of those platforms and yeah, we are out.
Speaker 2:Bye, bye everybody.
